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泰国森林传统与藏传大圆满的对话

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-19 21:54:34 | 显示全部楼层
jc.yx 发表于 2017-6-19 21:35
《小船与大山》46页
接着,阿姜查会解释心性本不动,但它是流动的,流动但是也是不动的。〔心〕是识知心, ...


贤友,阿姜们没有说这样的心就是涅槃。除非贤友找到明确的文字。否则贤友要珍惜自己获得道果的机会。到时忏悔是很麻烦的。

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-19 21:55:59 | 显示全部楼层
大家请注意,不同意,反对都可以,请就法义就好,批驳的很狠亦可。不要针对人,人的对境是可怕的。谢谢各位。
随喜你们对法的爱心、真心。

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-19 23:34:31 | 显示全部楼层
From Aṅguttara Nikāya:


49
Luminous, bhikkhus, is this mind, but it is defiled by adventitious defilements.”46

50
Luminous, bhikkhus, is this mind, and it is freed from adventitious defilements.”



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46
Pabhassaram idaṃ bhikkhave cittaṃ.
The exact meaning of this statement has been a matter of contention that has spawned conflicting interpretations.
Mp(增支部注) identifies the “luminous mind” with the bhavaṅgacitta(有分心), an Abhidhamma concept denoting the type of mental event that occurs in the absence of active cognition.


Though I (比丘菩提长老)quote Mp in full here, I find this explanation problematic on at least two grounds.


The first is that the very concept of the bhavaṅgacitta, and the corresponding notion of the cognitive process,
are not found in the Nikāyas but first emerge in a later period when the Abhidhamma was taking shape.
Even the term bhavaṅga, though crucial to the Theravāda Abhidhamma system, occurs only in the last book of the Abhidhamma Piṭaka, the Paṭṭhāna(发趣论).
It is found much more often in the Abhidhamma commentaries(阿毗达摩注释书).

The second reason I find Mp’s explanation problematic is that the text flatly states “this mind is luminous,” without qualification.
This suggests that luminosity is intrinsic to the mind itself, and not to a particular type of mental event.

Moreover, if the bhavaṅga is luminous, it should always remain so;
it becomes incoherent to speak of it being defiled by the javanas(速行).


The simplest interpretation of this statement, so far as I can see, is that luminosity is an innate characteristic of mind, seen in its capacity to illuminate its objective field.
This luminosity, though inherent, is functionally blocked because the mind is “defiled by adventitious defilements” (āgantukehi upakkilesehi upakkiliṭṭhaṃ).
The defilements are called “adventitious” because, unlike the luminosity, they are not intrinsic to the mind itself.
Of course, as 10:61(十集:61经) and 10:62 assert, there is no “first point” to ignorance and craving (and other efilements).
But these defilements can be removed by mental training.
With their removal, the mind’s intrinsic luminosity emerges—or, more precisely, becomes manifest.

The statement just below that the noble disciple understands the mind to be luminous implies that this insight into the intrinsic luminosity of the mind serves as the basis for further mental development, which liberates the mind from the defilements.
With the complete removal of defilements, the mind’s intrinsic luminosity shines forth unobstructed.
At 3:102, I 257,7 the word pabhassara(光明的)is used to describe the mind (citta) that has attained concentration (samādhi).

It thus seems that it is in deep samādhi that the intrinsic luminosity of the mind emerges, at least temporarily. 5:23, III 16,29–17,2 says explicitly that the mind freed from the five hindrances is luminous (pabhassara) and properly concentrated for the destruction of the taints.
See too MN III 243,11–12, where it is equanimity (upekkhā), presumably of the fourth jhāna, that is described as luminous.

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-19 23:37:30 | 显示全部楼层

巴利文献专家,精通注释书对比,尼柯耶翻译的比丘菩提长老,进而在《增支部》导读,针对该类经说


Thus the core of the Buddha’s teaching is the development and cultivation of the mind,
which, as a result of such cultivation, will unfold its intrinsic luminosity and ultimately arrive at the bliss of liberation.

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-19 23:41:14 | 显示全部楼层

The heart of the monastic life is the practice of what we call meditation,
the methodical effort to tame and master the mind and to develop its capacity for calm and insight.
The training begins with the undeveloped mind,
clouded and unruly, beset by passions and defilements.
It ends in the liberated mind, tranquil,tamed, bright and luminous,
freed from defilements and bondage to repeated existence.
——《增支部导言》长老菩提比丘

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发表于 2017-6-20 09:51:49 | 显示全部楼层
ratna1 发表于 2017-6-19 21:54
贤友,阿姜们没有说这样的心就是涅槃。除非贤友找到明确的文字。否则贤友要珍惜自己获得道果的机会。到时 ...

《大乘起信论》
若修止者:住于静处,端坐正意。不依气息,不依形色,不依于空,不依地、水、火、风,乃至不依见、闻、觉、知。一切诸想,随念皆除,亦遣除想。以一切法本来无相,念念不生、念念不灭。亦不得随心外念境界,后以心除心。心若驰散,即当摄来,住于正念。是正念者:当知:唯心,无外境界。既复此心亦无自相,念念不可得。若从坐起,去来、进止,有所施作,于一切时,常念方便,随顺观察。
久习纯熟,其心得住;以心住故,渐渐猛利,随顺得入真如三昧。深伏烦恼,信心增长,速成不退。唯除疑惑、不信、诽谤、重罪、业障、我慢、懈怠,如是等人所不能入。

我即如是等人耶?

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发表于 2017-6-20 10:01:03 | 显示全部楼层
借用43楼的拆解成果:
[[心.看见了.心]的果报]是苦的止息。

第二个心做为所缘,即阿姜所谓的非生灭现象的本心。依上座部的教理,句中处于该位置的就是涅槃。
佛陀设立蕴处界谛等名相,阿姜们不用。想要精确分析阿姜们的作品,确实有些困难。但意思在,跑不了。

贤友在第三页说的这个“识”属哪个谛?可否简明地解释一下
不依地水火风见闻觉知而禅修,
这识是光明的,无取的,
不为烦恼所染的。

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-20 10:15:55 | 显示全部楼层
这位贤友,请慎重,冷静。休息一段时间。太急伤身。真心话。

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发表于 2017-6-20 10:43:58 | 显示全部楼层
我没有急,只是适当地关注一些实质性的问题,指出非法为非法而已
再次请教
贤友在第三页说的这个“识”属哪个谛?可否简明地解释一下

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 楼主| 发表于 2017-6-20 10:56:31 | 显示全部楼层
好的朋友,我不为争辩。我累了。有时我不回答,自话自说,提前在此请您原谅了。
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